Apex Mnemovore Starhorn
“Apex Memes Business”
This deck first came to my attention when I came across Jasrael’s post on the Duelyst forums (that is his deck above). My first thoughts were this might be interesting but how consistent is this deck going to be. But in reading the thread I noticed that some good players were interested in the deck and that is one of the signs “hey you should pay attention to a deck or concept”. I also noticed this post on reddit on the same deck. I knew then that this was going be a real deck. As with any new deck, it will start to circulate up top in S-rank first then trickle down around to rest of the player base unless someone makes a big post about it.
GoodGuy Hopper just happened to be testing the deck at the time and needed a crash test dummy for the testing of his variant of the deck and I volunteered. We played a couple of games I used Aggro Vet, Strategos Brome, Wizard Brome and Burn Starhorn. I went 1-4 against him with one win being Aggro Vet. In two of the games, I lost was holding lethal damage if I got my turn that doesn’t mean much against a combo deck but it didn’t feel like I was losing badly so I guess that is plus for the deck. The basic understanding I want people to get from this is that I knew in advance that it was combo deck unlike people on the ladder and tournaments. And in the hands of a skilled player, it can successfully get to its combo turn consistently. In the Wizard Brome/Apex Starhorn game, we played GGH even got off the combo a second time to kill me. These decklists so far are nowhere fine-tuned yet, but I am fairly confident if no change(nerf or bug fix) happens that some variant of this deck will be one of the top decks in the game.
What was good
Now I have come across a couple versions of this deck, They all have very similar things in the deck. Quite honestly I have seen a couple of variants I think might be better than these decks shown here but I have not spoken to person/people about sharing their deck. That said the above decks have all or most elements of those decks, I believe might be more tuned so you can experiment to find what you think works best but as mentioned earlier the decks are not fine-tuned they are probably going to go through big changes.
All you really need to understand is Apex, Decimus, and Mnemovore is the combo. You can summon a total of 8 minions around your general if you have the spaces and you can see where it is going.
Is this a bug
I am going to quote two players opinions who I think have a good grasp of the game.
“Pretty sure this is a bug. I tried my own version of the list out earlier after our resident discord moderator T2K5 promptly comboed me into the shadow realm. Draw and Burn are two different mechanics yet the burned cards from memevore count as drawn cards. For example, Tectonic Spikes draws you and your opponent 3 cards, regardless of whether or not those cards are added to your opponent’s hand or burned, which is why it procs Decimus. Memevore voids drawing cards and simply burns three so theoretically it should deal no damage in a combo with Decimus. Whether or not this is spaghetti code or a miss representation of card text is beyond me, but if this is intended then Memevore should just have “draws and burns” in its card text.”
“I have now done a fair amount of testing my self and refined a few lists, and just like the OP said it does indeed work. I am still very suspicious that all of this is a bug. I mean there are THREE inconsistent things going on here.
- That burn counts as draw for Decimus in the first place.
- That Mnemvore counts all summons at the sametime despite that it can be proven that Apex summons things in a random order with other cards.
- That Decimus also ignores the summoning order of Apex and procs on all of Mnevores things.
So there is a pretty good chance one or all of these will be changed”
So I am put in an interesting place I am not going to purposely spread any bugs ever. I believe there is a process to these things. I think I have stated it in past but the process is to report the bug to CPG and then check with devs who in the past have been generally solid with their communication if it is okay to talk about. But this deck has gotten some tournament play already and it doesn’t look like it will be patched out before the other tournaments. So as one of the few Duelyst sites around it is my job to talk about this stuff when it is relevant but I mean I have seen in other games players have gotten accounts suspended showing a bug. Also, I generally don’t want to be on the bad side of CPG and Bandai Namco so as this website grows we want to have a good relationship with the company. But quite honestly communication has been iffy with CPG who seems to prefer(probably rightful so) to talk about an issue after they have fixed it.
But in a situation like these ones, an official word however obvious it might seem is needed. A simple official “Decimus + Mnemovore interactions is bugged” means it is easier to ban for tournament organizers and also it curbs users because they have simply say “People found purposely using bugs can have their account suspended and banned.” And Duelyst has a replay system it is very stupid to use an exploit it is a simple matter of person reporting the game even the time in the game it happened. This untended interaction seems similar in type to the Hatefurance ones where we can see something is wrong but it is in general flow of gameplay and if you know about it you can be ready for it. That means people are more comfortable using this unintended interaction regularly than say when Trials where bugged with interaction that cause them to reset. You are going to see this deck on the ladder
The Weakness and a Warning
In a metagame having Sajj and Strategos Brome to name a few there are already decks who aim is to push damage before decks complete their combo. So you can beat this deck before it pulls off its combo and there are decks already being played such as Aggro Cass and Zirix, or Burn Starharn for example which can beat it before the setup. Lyonar when I played felt solid you have minions that can crowd the space and Apex needs space to work. There are two cards that I want to mention the first is Archon spellbinder (as well Keshrai Fanblade) your only real option of preventing the combo from happening. I don’t think it is a particularly good option but delaying it a turn might be enough to get you a win. The other card I want to mention is Indominus (and maybe Grandmaster Zir). With Indominus* down you should not take any damage and they blow their load making you have a very good chance to win.
Lastly, I wouldn’t craft Mnemovore if I didn’t already own them, if this card gets changed it will not be a nerf but a correction of glitch/bug/unintended interaction there is a chance you won’t get a full refund. It has happened with Hatefurnace which was changed and nobody got a refund.
What happens if this stays
Well if the devs decide like Hatefurance they like this interaction to remain. Then Apex cost has to be changed to 8 (maybe 9 mana). And as a Magmar player that would be sad because Apex as a card is pretty fair. It is the equivalent of going “all in” while playing poker you play it with the educated guess that my hand is better than your hand and it is balanced because you get brutally punished if you guess wrong. I can’t really see any other solutions in keeping it that wouldn’t lead to some major reworking of some cards. Finally, while personally, I think there should be some low barrier skill decks that even the playing field between skill levels. I think this interaction is too much and isn’t overall good for the game at the current cost.
* I did not fully test the interaction I will be doing so further today to see if there is any inconsistency with Indominus and Apex/Mnemovore.I will update the article if I see or learn of any changes.